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hot take

pirate any game from a company where sales don't directly affect the actual creators' wages

buy any game that directly impacts whether the artists and coders can afford rent

if piracy actually affected revenue in any meaningful way, corporations would already have found a way to pass the loss onto their workers

@kat s/game/digital thing/

As a grad student I believe pirating a paper, textboox or a scientific volume is ethically far more superior than to both buying it or accessing it via your library's access.

@kat "Directly" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here: even most small game companies run so that the profits go into making more games, meaning it decides whether someone will have a job in a few years.

@jaranta i'd put more stock in that if i ever saw a case of extra profit going anywhere except an executive's yearly bonus

@wigglytuffitout @jaranta the cool thing is blizzard was actually doing very well financially and liquidated a couple hundred workers to fund the new exec's extra salary for doing literally nothing

higher revenue doesn't lead to job security for the workers, it just leads to more money for the guys up top and everyone creating the value gets punished because it could theoretically be even higher

@wigglytuffitout @jaranta as a bonus, you better believe the layoffs were heavily weighted toward minorities and women, and the guys forcing their workload onto female interns to go play call of duty and hang out in "the cosby suite" got to keep their jobs

the idea that capitalism ever naturally enforces fairness is absolutely a total lie for any company above 100 workers, if it was ever true at all

@kat @wigglytuffitout I don't see what this is an answer to, but since you kept me in the thread: Activision Blizzard is the biggest game company out there, so they may not be a good exemplar. I'm not disagreeing with anything with this particular case, just want to point out that they might not be the best example to think with.

@jaranta @wigglytuffitout a queer leftist furry smut artist is honestly probably the least productive person to defend capitalism to, just as a heads up

@kat I think you're confusing particular forms of ownership with capitalism. But as you point out, this might not be the most productive discussion, so have a good day!

@jaranta trickle down economics don't start being a real thing when video games are involved hope this helps, have a nice day

@kat And games that are like, older, like emulation and stuff.

a bit long 

@kat I feel like it should be noted that it is very, very rare for games that an indie game developer is selling copies of to be both a revenue source they depend on and adding up to only a modest amount of income. Far more common is that the amount of money they get is almost nothing or they got lucky and manged to land a position where they make tons of money off of selling an unexpectedly popular game.

Given that, I don't think it's ever morally incumbent on anyone to give money to or pay for any game. Speaking as a game developer myself, I think it's pretty common knowledge among small video game developers (the ones you've mostly never heard of or played the games of) that the idea of actually making a living off of video games is a pipe dream only really possible if you get lucky and, say, make an Infiniminer clone that gets incredibly popular.

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a bit long 

@diligentcircle "game designers shouldn't expect to make money from their work anyway" is pretty cold reasoning, yikes

speaking as a game dev, maybe you should just buy the game if it's a small dev who deserves support and use your better judgement if you want to make exceptions for the candy mansion libertarian guy

a bit long 

@kat Since you say you're a game dev, how much money have you actually gotten from people buying your games? The number for me is under $100, and that's why I gave up on it entirely. Most of the time, paying money for a game means paying a publisher. I have an incredibly tiny Patreon and have still gotten way more money from that then I could ever have gotten from selling copies of games I've developed. Most people buying games have high quality expectations and simply won't pay for anything that isn't AAA quality, and being one of the exceptional indie games that people will pay for isn't really something you can control as an indie gamedev.

Besides that, I don't believe copyright is a just system. It's effectively incorporating the idea of private property into creative works and like private property, it's there to benefit capitalists, not workers. I don't think it's "cold" to say that one entity (usually a corporation) deciding whether or not a creative work is allowed to be duplicated and used isn't something that should be respected, or that poor people shouldn't be shamed into funneling money into what is more often than not either companies or very well-off people.

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@diligentcircle i stopped reading when you decided me going "maybe you should pirate from corporations but still buy things from marginalized creators who are financially disadvantaged by institutionalized inequality" was some kind of defense of corporate IP law

you can pay me if you want to keep talking about this but i'm losing a good $25/hour if i let you pirate my free time instead of doing work

have a nice day

@diligentcircle deliberately obtuse sealioning isn't a substitute for my hourly wage

i'm also already doing my real job full-time so you're gonna have to give me time and a half, just getting that out there

@diligentcircle anyway invest a bunch of free time trying to convince you you're not really history's greatest hero for pirating games by minority devs because you think creative work "isn't a real job" and queer poc making games from their basements are worse than facebook

or i could ignore everything in that post after "nobody bought MY game" and call you some goofy names and get the same entertainment for zero of the cost, which seems more in line with your ethos anyway

you absolute melt

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@kat I don't know why you're being so aggressive or why you're misrepresenting what I said so badly. What I was saying is that, statistically, any game you would pay for *isn't* giving money to a "minority dev", it's either giving money to a corporation or it's giving money to one of the very few well-off indie devs. There are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of games out there and very, very few are actually played by any significant number of people. AAA games are advertised for tremendously and that's why people know about them. For indie games, that's not an option; you can't pay for ads if you don't have lots of money already.

I also never said that game development "isn't a real job". I'm opposed to capitalism, not the idea that game development should be respected. Game development, like all art, is an important thing and capitalism by and large does not support struggling gamedevs. Calling for trying to use capitalism (and private property no less) to support the many struggling artists out there is in my opinion naïve. The numbers just don't add up.

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@diligentcircle yeah i'm not actually reading any of this, you're giving me the "if they want to afford rent, they should get a real job" 0% tip karen speech and you're from that weird stalkery transphobe instance and i'm not getting paid for a consultation so i'm outie

@kat You're making yourself look real silly right now by putting words in my mouth I never said.

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@diligentcircle if it means i don't have to waste what little time the universe has given me on this conversation, feel free to put "looked silly" on my gravestone when i get there

have a day

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